Culture & Compliance Chronicles: Meditation—A Tool for Presence, Clarity, and Performance in an Ever-Changing World with Michael Miller

At a glance: Click the links below to advance directly to the corresponding sections of the transcript:

• [1:38] Getting to Know Michael
• [6:05] Making Time for Meditation in Our Busy Lives
• [12:40] The Difference Between Meditation and Mindfulness
• [14:51] The Neuroscience of Meditation
• [20:37] Working Meditation into Your Workday
• [24:30] The Impact of Meditation on Wellbeing
• [29:12] Isn’t a Little Stress a Good Thing?
• [33:50] Meditation and Technology
• [37:45] Final Takeaways
• [40:59] Getting in Touch with Michael

 

Nitish Upadhyaya: Welcome back to the Culture & Compliance Chronicles, the podcast that gives you new perspectives on legal, compliance, and regulatory challenges faced by organizations and individuals worldwide. The clue is in the title—culture is at the heart of everything. It’s the endlessly shifting patterns that govern our environment and behaviors. The magic is in amplifying certain patterns and dampening others. Let’s see if we can pique your curiosity, get you to challenge some of your perceptions, and give you space to think differently about some of your own challenges. I’m Nitish Upadhyaya, and I’m joined by Amanda Raad and Richard Bistrong. Hi, Amanda and Richard.

Amanda Raad: Hello. Hello.

Richard Bistrong: Hello, everybody.

Nitish Upadhyaya: Last time we were recording with Fraser Simpson, and we talked about directors, how they see and make decisions. We talked about the impact of having an ethics program that actually works for the people on the ground, and the joys of their Connie tool. Amanda, tell us who we’ve got in store for our listeners.

Amanda Raad: Thanks, Nitish. So, I have been waiting for today for a very long time—well, at least a little over a year now. We have with us today a dear friend, Michael Miller from London and New York Meditation Center. And I am so excited to have Michael, and so excited to actually talk about meditation here today. But before we do that, let’s just get to know a little bit more about Michael. So, Michael, our three questions that we start every podcast with. First, can you just tell us three things that we should know about you?

[1:38] Getting to Know Michael

Michael Miller: Hi, Amanda. It is a real pleasure to be here—I’ve been waiting for this as well. Three things to know about me. I grew up in the Midwest of America, and I have a complicated relationship with that. It was a fantastic way to grow up. It was a smaller town, incredibly safe, and the education was fantastic. The worldview was a little constricted, and so, I think I’ve spent my adult life finding out how I can take the very best of those things and then expand upon them. Number two—this is something that I don’t really talk about—when I was 10 years old, I was a founding member of the Iowa Herpetological Society. Herpetology is the study of reptiles and amphibians, and this was my life dream, to become a scientist. I spent my childhood, perhaps appropriately, in the Midwest, with snakes and lizards.

Amanda Raad: I knew we had the Midwest in common. We don’t actually have snakes and reptiles in common, but I had the horses. Maybe it’s a Midwest thing.

Michael Miller: Maybe we were just looking for friends.

Amanda Raad: Maybe. All right. Number three.

Michael Miller: I’m celebrating 22 years as a practitioner of Vedic meditation. And I think I could count on two hands the number of meditations I’ve missed in that time. We meditate twice a day, and I’m happy to say, I’ve been on it that whole time. It’s quite a marker for me.

Amanda Raad: Congratulations. That’s amazing. And I’ve always wanted to ask you how consistent you are. I knew it was going to be good, but the fact that you can count it on fingers is amazing. All right. What is something that you are curious about?

Michael Miller: This is so interesting, because I think I’m a curious person, but I find myself particularly interested—maybe just because of the moment—in the impact of AI and social media on our human connections, and it’s something that I’ve been diving into a lot. I think for Gen X, we were so embedded in television and video games, and got told how horrible they were for us, and then, what actually happened was television and Facebook rotted our parents’ brains. And we came out okay. Now, I look at young people being so immersed in the panic around that, and I question for myself, and I try to explore: Is this another media panic that sells a lot of commercials? Or is this something that is really changing society at a structural layer that I need to be more concerned about than my first impulse?

Amanda Raad: We’ve talked about AI quite a lot here, and actually, AI and the impact on human connection. I’d love to think about it a little bit more as we talk later, just on technology generally, and well-being, and how meditation fits in with all of that. But I won’t jump to that yet. What is the last thing that surprised you?

Michael Miller: I don’t get surprised by things, actually. I continue to be amazed. But surprise, for us, when we think about being more conscious, means that you weren’t paying attention. I don’t find myself very surprised. I am amazed by my 12-year-old daughter, and how she is fitting into this world in a way that I just love to witness. I think all of us dream of raising children that are better at life than we are. In this moment of transition for her—socially, educationally, and personally—I’m amazed by the way she’s firing through it all. It’s great.

Amanda Raad: I love that. And I can also attest to the fact that I am amazed by her skills at selling books, because I have bought many, many books from her when given the opportunity.

Michael Miller: I’ll take the opportunity to pitch the book in a little bit.

[6:05] Making Time for Meditation in Our Busy Lives

Amanda Raad: Thank you for that. Let’s dive into this. I have been wanting to talk about meditation on this podcast, like I said, for quite a long time, but it became very ripe for discussion when I was sitting on a panel with our dear friend here and co-host, Richard. And Richard asks the panel at Compliance Week a question right at the end of the panel. I was well prepped, but I didn’t have a planned answer for this. And the question was: In this crazy world of change, volatility, and everything that’s going on right now, what is something that we, as compliance officers, legal professionals, and all the business colleagues that were in the room at Compliance Week, what is something that we can do to navigate this? Like, what’s a tip that you want to leave everyone with? And lots of things started running through my mind, as I was listening to everyone else answer, but the thing that kept sticking with me was: What I really want to say here right now is “meditation.” I really want to just tell people finally that that is actually the one thing I think they could do that would really make a difference. And I thought, “You really shouldn’t say that. Now’s not the right moment.” And then it got to me, and before I could think any further, out came the story. It was very real, very unscripted, and in a lot of ways, kind of therapeutic for me. And then, it ended, and it was wonderful. All of these people came up out of the audience and said how much they enjoyed hearing about it and had questions about how they could learn about meditation, and how it might help them. I think what really stuck with them the most was something that I said, which was that I am one of the least likely meditators. I, at one point, fired a coach who suggested that I learn to meditate—that was just too much for me. I tried the apps, and I got very frustrated at the voices. So, it was the opposite of meditation—I was not relaxing, I was escalating.

But then, I met you a little over a year ago and had the privilege of learning Vedic meditation. And literally, as anyone who has talked to me knows more than they care to know about it, it has actually changed my life. It’s just an amazing tool that can help not only individuals in their own well-being, but help you show up the best you can in your profession, with your colleagues, with your family members, and in a world that is bumpy, stormy, changing, and unpredictable, and maybe not surprising, but amazing. It’s something very near and dear to my heart. So, I thought we could spend some time just thinking about you helping to explain to us the real truth behind all of this and asking you some more questions. But I just wanted to tee it up from that perspective of how we got here. I have also dragged Richard into my side of thinking on meditation, and so, maybe Richard, you could share a little bit about your perspective both on your personal journey, but the question of how it can help us, and why it’s so relevant to our listeners.

Richard Bistrong: It is, and for many of the reasons why you shared, Amanda, in terms of our world of volatility, stress, anxiety, the vortex of news and news feeds. And just to rewind a little bit, I’ve known Amanda for over 10 years. I think it was probably a few years ago we were talking and I noticed just a more relaxed Amanda, and started asking her, “What’s different?” And she talked to me about Vedic meditation. I read both of the books by you and Jillian. Amanda started to explain it, and it was like, “You don’t really need to—what you have is what I’d like to explore.” After that panel in Compliance Week, the crowd surged to Amanda, and the rest of the panelists were left talking to each other. So, that was a sign that this podcast was necessary. Maybe we could do some myth busting, Michael, because I think for a lot of our professionals and peers that might hear “meditation,” there could be a sigh of, “I don’t have time for something else.” Maybe I work out in the morning, and I have parental or guardian responsibilities. “It sounds great, but there’s just no way. Unless we’re going to a 25-hour day, it’s not going to happen.”

Michael Miller: Thanks, both Richard and Amanda. I think you’re such amazing examples of both the value of meditating, but also, the do-ability of it. You’re not two people who are sitting around not doing anything—you are both on the move, and have very full lives. And meditation adds to that—it’s not taking away. So, what we do with the Vedic meditation is we meditate for 20 minutes, twice a day—that’s the strategy: in the morning before breakfast, so first thing, before the day kicks off, and then, at the end of the working or the activity of the day, before dinner, we like to do our second one. And the first meditation in the morning gives us energy, and clears the mind, and takes us into the world in a balanced emotional state. And then, at the end of the working day or at the end of a long weekend day, we sit down before dinner and do a little reset that then takes us into that other aspect of life—personal, social, and family—that evening time, also in a balanced, open, creative way. This technique is easy, effortless, and enjoyable. We’re not doing it just because we have 40 minutes in the day that we’re not sure what to do with, so let’s do something nice—we’re doing it because of what happens as a result, that we come out of that, and go into the world in a really different state. I think that’s a big thing to emphasize: this is not about withdrawing from the world. This is about doing something that allows you to engage more fully, and more directly, taking more of yourself into your workplace and into your family.

[12:40] The Difference Between Meditation and Mindfulness

Richard Bistrong: So, Michael, for those that might be too afraid to ask, because meditation is a word that we hear a lot about, and the same thing for mindfulness, that’s also been surging, in terms of apps and discussion, what’s the difference between meditation and mindfulness?

Michael Miller: I’ll jump first on the app thing. I think the apps have been amazing because they’ve normalized the idea of meditation—that, “Oh. It’s out there.” It’s unusual for me to encounter someone who’s interested in meditation who hasn’t tried an app. Over the last 15 years, we’ve taught many thousands of people—most every one of them has tried the app. Only two, of all the people that I’ve taught, were doing an app meditation regularly. A piece of research just came out that said 95% of people who try the app do less than four sessions, and are not using it after one month. Apps are really good at keeping you on the apps, and I don’t know how good they are at actually doing what it is that you want, which is to become a meditator. Mindfulness, for us, is a desirable outcome of meditation. It is really good to be present, and in the moment, and not be distracted, unfocused, or unclear. That, when we’re meditating twice a day, is a spontaneous outcome. And this is what our meditators report: “I found myself in a conversation and really present, and really listening to the person. I wasn’t trying to be present in that moment.” And that, for so many people, is what mindfulness becomes—they’re attempting to be there, when actually they’re not.

Nitish Upadhyaya: So, what’s happening to you as you meditate in whatever format? It sounds like the apps don’t necessarily do the job. So, what is happening to you, your brain, your way of being that then allows you to show up in the way that you just described?

[14:51] The Neuroscience of Meditation

Michael Miller: This technique that we’re talking about, Vedic meditation, the Veda is the body of knowledge that comes out of ancient India—this has been around for 5,000 years, at least. You lean back, comfortable in a chair, you close your eyes, and you think to yourself a little sound, a mantra that is chosen and personalized for you by the teacher. Because it is personal to you, it has two effects. It self-refines. You think it silently, and it gets more quiet and more subtle inside. And at the same time, it’s fascinating. It’s charming to your mind. So, your mind gets drawn down into very quiet layers of thinking, until the mantra gets so quiet that it disappears, and you find yourself in a state of no mantra and no thought, just pure awareness. And that is your ground state—that’s your source. That’s the source of your energy, your intelligence, your organizing power, and your happiness, all sourced in that silence within. So, you come out of a meditation, and you feel emotionally balanced and mentally refreshed. And what happens in the mind happens in the body. So, your mind quietens down. Your body rests very deeply. Different meditations do different things. This technique, you can be resting two or three, even five times more deeply than sleep. It’s really profound physiological rest. And, Nitish, you know what you would be like tomorrow if you had a beautiful night’s sleep tonight. Eight hours—great sleep. You’re going to be nicer, think more clearly, get on better with folks, and get more done. One night. You have three good nights in a row, you’re a new human. Everything is uplifted. You get 20 minutes, twice a day of unprecedented rest, and that transforms things really, really quickly. You are spontaneously your best self, as a result of coming into the world in a balanced state.

Nitish Upadhyaya: I think that’s an amazing way to encapsulate what people actually end up feeling. And you gave us a little glimpse into what that practice looks like. Can you help us dive a bit deeper? For folks who are listening who are maybe interested to try this in their own way, and amazed, possibly, at the types of things that you’ve just discussed happening, maybe they want something for themselves.

Michael Miller: Yes. It’s really difficult to dabble. I was a meditation dabbler for 10 years. The result was I always felt like a bad meditator. And I was doing a concentration style of meditation. Sit. Stare at the candle flame. Or stare at a spot on the wall. Or just close your eyes, and grit your teeth, and try not to think. “Don’t think. Don’t think.” But then, you think, “Don’t think. “Don’t think,” because that’s another thought. Now, I’m caught at a Catch-22. And I wouldn’t do it for very long, because it didn’t feel good. I was frustrated. I wasn’t even sure what I was meant to be doing. This is the same with mindfulness types of techniques. If I did a 90-minute yoga class, and twisted and sweated, and was exhausted at the end, and then lay down in that savasana position, I would kind of clunk out, and that felt nice at the end. And at some point, I felt like, “Can I skip the 90 minutes of twisting and just go straight to that groovy part at the end?” I had been on a little bit of a search and had honestly given up—I had let go. This was prior to the apps.

And then, a friend of mine took this course that’s four sessions over four days in a row, only about two hours each day, and she was a different person. She was someone who was aggressively happy, like bouncing off the walls, and that really softened. She made a big life decision that had been hanging around in the background, and just made a move on something, but in a very non-dramatic way. I was clocking that, and I thought, “Something is going on.” And I went along and heard her teacher speak. Richard, it was a little bit like what you said about witnessing a change in Amanda. I had seen something in this person, and then I met this teacher. I was not searching for meditation, but 10 minutes into them starting to speak, I was like, “I’ll do it. You seem to have something, some inner calm, and clarity, and ease that I would like to have too. And if it was meditation that did that, then I will go for it.”

Now, Nitish, to go back to your question, I think the apps are really useful, in that you can sample different things. And you can hear a guided meditation, and that’s great. You can listen to Harry Styles read you a bedtime story on the Calm app, and that’s really charming for some people. There are entry points, and what we find is pretty quickly people feel like, “Okay. Now I want to learn for real.” And that requires in-person instruction. There’s a lot of experimentation and sampling that can be done before that that I think is really well worth your while.

Amanda Raad: So, I just want to circle back real quick on the myth, because Richard’s right—everyone that we come across says there just really isn’t time. Twenty minutes, twice a day: I know it’s not that much, but, really, what do you say to that? Why does investing this amount of time actually make sense for busy professionals?

[20:37] Working Meditation into Your Workday

Michael Miller: I think, Amanda, you’re a fan of Formula 1, and I make a comparison that we would never put a driver into one of those cars, and say, “Okay. Go out on the track and just drive until you break down. And then, we’ll tow you in, repair the car, and put you out again.” It’s kind of what we do to ourselves, and especially in your world—just go, go, go, and pray that you make it to your two-week summer holiday. A lot of times, people do break down, they get unwell, and they get unhappy. And so, what we do is more like Formula 1 today. You pull in for a really efficient pit stop. There is no way to re-balance your system this fast other than Vedic meditation. You do a 20-minute session, that’s maybe the equivalent of an hour and a half sleep. That was a big thing for me, that I actually, in the early days, found myself sleeping less but feeling more rested. I remember a partner in a firm that I taught who said she was really concerned about the time. And what she found is she would get up and meditate and then hit the ground running in such a different way. She used to get into the office, and it took 45 minutes to rev up and get going. And she felt like she was just boom, and go, and straight into it. And so, there is the amount of time, and then, there’s the efficiency of how you’re using time that gets so much better. It’s a question of feeling good and performing well.

Amanda Raad: Sometimes, that afternoon reset, which I have bumped earlier in the day, if I get that in, and then go back to whatever it is that I was trying to do, I do come back with such an increased level of clarity, efficiency. And something that seemed maybe a bit tangley, that I couldn’t quite work out where I was going to go with it just opens up a little bit.

Michael Miller: It’s like when your computer resets overnight, and it downloads a little system upgrade. And you restart the next morning, and it just runs a little better. You take that 20 minutes, and you come out, and you just go into action. There’s a knowingness of what to do.

Richard Bistrong: It sounds daunting… 20 minutes in my day? Where is that coming from? And I think there is a benefit in that to our busy professionals in that there’s a discipline to say, “I need to be intentional about carving out 20 minutes,” which is not a lot of time. For me, what it made me appreciate is after those 20 minutes, the world didn’t crack open, there wasn’t a catastrophe, and things went on without me. As you said, then we are more present when we come out of that meditation.

Michael Miller: I had the same experience, Richard. I was in a corporate publishing environment. On Thursdays, we put three pieces to bed: we had a morning paper, an afternoon paper, and a weekly magazine. And there was a lot that had to go across my desk before it could go to the printer. Why I wanted to meditate so much, I don’t know—but I just really wanted to squeeze it in, and I snuck out. I actually raced down and sat in my car in the parking garage, and did a short meditation, only 10 minutes, and came racing back upstairs. And I was a little bit insulted that nobody had noticed that I was gone. I really thought I was a bit more important than that. And I found that I could really fit it in.

[24:30] The Impact of Meditation on Wellbeing

The value of it—this is the most scientifically studied technique, 600-700 studies done over the last few decades—shows that meditators are more healthy. They access the health care system less often, really significant in certain categories of disease. It shows that your brain works better, the prefrontal cortex gets engaged, and that the limbic system, the stress response quietens down. And so, you’re in a calmer state, and your thinking is better. Creative and critical thinking test scores go up. And focused attention improves. It improves relationship fluency. People self report, and others report that they get on better with people around them. They are more efficient, and they’re getting things done in a better way. And they feel better emotionally. We see that in their neuro chemistry, that bliss chemicals like anandamide, dopamine, and serotonin go up. So, if I’m doing something that makes me healthier, makes me happier, and makes my brain work better, I feel smarter, I get more done, I’m getting on better with the people around me—to not do that means that I sacrifice or surrender those things.

Amanda Raad: A lot of our episodes, we’ve talked about how we show up, what presence we bring into a situation, how important it is to create a culture where people feel comfortable speaking up or speaking their truth, but in order for us to do that, we have to listen up. We spend a lot of time talking about how important really true listening skills are, and what happens when we don’t show up in that way, or don’t create that space. You’ve talked a little bit about presence and listening, but can you just expand a little more in what meditation can offer for that particular skill set, which is really core to something we spend a lot of time talking about here?

Michael Miller: Back in May, we had a panel discussion with a couple of psychotherapists who have learned to meditate with us and then have sent a lot of their clients along to learn. And we thought well, that’s very interesting—let’s have a conversation both with our meditator community, and also, people outside of that, especially inviting other therapists, psychologists along. What is this doing for you, as a therapist? And what is this doing for your clients? One of the things that really came up was that they, as professionals, felt quiet inside, and therefore able to be still, and be open in the presence of another person, no matter what that other person’s emotional state was. I think that’s one of the real challenges of being open to listening to someone, really being present in a way that is valuable, is that the other person is in a different state—they might not be coming with that agenda. If you’re working with someone you report in to, or someone who reports to you, there’s a whole dynamic going on that is their business. Can I come in a state that makes me in the moment and able to respond in the best way, in the most appropriate way? And I think, again, this is so important in your world. This is not about turning you into some spaced-out bliss bunny, legs crossed, smile on your face, while someone plows over and completely outmaneuvers you—you are able to respond appropriately. Sometimes, that’s to be quiet, understanding, and compassionate. And sometimes, that means I step up, push back, and I’m direct, and I’m even a bit forceful, if that’s what the situation calls for. And it is bringing us into appropriate response, instead of habitual reaction—listening is part of that.

Nitish Upadhyaya: Michael, that gets at a really interesting point. We talk about culture or meditation, and some of these things feel fluffy to the corporate world. I have a hard-nosed target. I have an incentive. I have a model. I have a market. These are things that I need to look at. And the world around us reacts more, I think, to that sort of world. That’s not necessarily the right thing, but it seems to move towards that.

[29:12] Isn’t a Little Stress a Good Thing?

Michael Miller: Sometimes, people say, “A little stress is good for you.” And I actually disagree. Demands are good. We want to be asked to step up and perform at our fullest. Stress, defined medically, is crossing over to a response that is irrelevant—because the stress response is fight or flight. And in fight or flight, your prefrontal cortex, long-term planning, moral reasoning, higher judgment—all the kinds of things that you all talk about—shuts down. And what fires up: the reptilian brain. And what is that in charge of? I heard someone say the three Fs: fighting, feeding, and procreation. None of those things are relevant in the moment of pressurized interchange in a professional experience—you need to be at your very best. And so, what we find is when people are making time for this, they operate better in the situations in the workplace. They are able to let go, return to center, step out of that, and live the other parts of their lives more fully.

I was talking recently with someone about work-life balance, and I said, “I don’t really believe in work-life balance.” And someone else said, “Well, it’s all life.” And it is all life, and I want to be able to experience all of it fully. If I am going home in a stressed state, I’m not going to feel good at home, and I’m going to go back into my workplace in a more stressed state. So, what we see is happier people, and that’s more sustainable people. And that starts to build a culture within the organizations where we’ve gone in. It starts to build a culture of collaboration and support that is different, because when people are in good shape, they have that capacity. When I’m stressed out, strung out, and exhausted, it becomes all about number one. It is: How do I get through? And that will undermine a department or an organization so, so quickly. And when it comes from the top, then that really moves everyone underneath. Not everyone needs to meditate—a few key people really make a difference.

Richard Bistrong: I was doing some research for an article that I wrote in Fast Company about how to help people that have hearing impairment at work. And in talking to some providers and audiologists, what they were sharing is in our virtual world, where we’re on Zoom calls or Teams calls, we’re in a fight or flight mode, because our perception is we’re a foot from each other. And if you had people all day a foot from you in real life, you’re going to go in all kinds of ways of the direction of stress. Do you find that in our virtual world, that being able to get out of that virtual fight or flight mode during the day for 20 minutes also has an added benefit given our new way of work?

Michael Miller: Absolutely. Impressively, just a side note, you all sit back from the camera a little bit in a way that is so positive. My face is kind of filling the screen—if I was that close to you in real life, you would be stressed. Like, “Dude, back off.” Just to do little things like that, to back away, and give people virtual space, then, to give yourself the space of, “Okay. I’ve been on here all day long. And now, I’m going to close my laptop. I’m going to close my eyes for 20 minutes, and boom—reset. Now, I can reengage from a different state.” And it makes people feel so different, and they then find they can put their devices down in a different way.

Amanda Raad: I have personally found that meditation has really helped me create appropriate boundaries with how I interact with technology, but I don’t know why. So, what can you say on that?

[33:50] Meditation and Technology

Michael Miller: The reason that so many of us go to the device is that it gives us a little spike of happy chemistry. I got a like, or I saw something funny, or I got an email response from my line manager that was positive—I get these little boosts. Or even I see something that needs to be done, and it gives me a little zing. It’s external. It’s exogenous. I’m looking out there to feel good in here. When I’m meditating, I feel good in here, and it starts to reset the system. Then, I’m less dependent on that external stimulation for the boost, and I’m trending toward more bliss chemistry, general happiness. We start to get into these grooves of disappointment, frustration, and feeling blue, and that becomes our psycho-physical habit. It maybe starts in the mind, but it becomes a neuro-chemical trend in our body. And meditation resets that trend—it tears apart that stress chemistry, and rebuilds it into the chemistry of happiness and health. And then, that’s endogenous—it’s inside of us. And the need to go to the outside for a little boost goes down. I’m more fascinated by my internal life—there’s something more rich and more stable inside. And so, I don’t need those little zings of whatever it is that’s in my hand.

Nitish Upadhyaya: You talk about rewiring the brain. For me, at least, it’s rewiring your response to a situation, “How do I show up in this moment?” It can still be a stressor. I’m very much of the belief you have butterflies, and they help you do your thing. It’s kind of pulling towards that same way of, “How do I react to a situation?” And if you’re a little bit more sensitive, you’ve had that time, then you’re there, and you can put all of yourself into what you’re going to do, whether that’s a task, a sports event, a conversation, a difficult conversation, whatever it might be.

Michael Miller: Exactly. We do see a really powerful effect on the neuro-plasticity. If you are in a stressed state, you don’t behave in the way that you wish. You get angry and aggressive, when what you ought to be is peaceful and understanding. You also might get a little withdrawn or resistant, when the situation is asking you to step up and be prospective. And so, there is capacity that develops as a result of meditation, that I actually have the capacity to make a choice. We all know how we would like to be in the world. Can we do it? If we’re stressed, and if we’re exhausted, then that is really, really hard—it requires so much effort, and it’s not very enjoyable. You clear out stress, you release that fatigue, and you find yourself spontaneously stepping into a higher version of yourself. And that then has a feedback effect: “Oh, I feel better about myself.” And then, I go home and get my afternoon meditation in. And then, I have a nice evening experience. And then, I fall asleep a bit more easily. And then, I get up more easily in the morning, and I get a meditation in. And I have a nice breakfast with my family. There’s this virtuous upward cycle, versus the downward cycle of stress and exhaustion that just makes me behave worse and feel more badly about myself and others. Let’s turn that around.

Nitish Upadhyaya: I think that’s a rousing way to take us to some of our key thoughts. Amanda, why don’t you give us your big takeaway? I’ll do the same with Richard, and then, after I’ve done mine, Michael, give us a final takeaway for the listeners.

[37:45] Final Takeaways

Amanda Raad: I just am going to end with where I started. My big takeaway is this is my tip—this is the secret sauce. I really believe that this is a way to show up your very best self in the world. And I can’t say enough about the value of it. I’m so grateful for the opportunity to have learned with you, Michael, and for you sharing your thoughts with us today.

Richard Bistrong: I would echo everything that Amanda has shared. And Michael, something that you were talking about, and I think this is very relative to our listeners, is this stress that we’re dealing with. And what I have found is I used to deal with stress like a wave. It’s coming to hit me, and I’m going to react to it at that time. And I think through Vedic meditation, I’ve learned that wave will pass. I find that it has given me the discipline to just buy enough time to really think about what the issues are, to be more present, to be more thoughtful, and to be more kind. That doesn’t mean you’re always being nice, but just how you react and respond to your world can dramatically change in 40 minutes. I think another just little myth busting is if you miss a session of 20 minutes, it doesn’t mean you blew the whole program, and now I’ve got to find another app, because I messed this one up. It happens, and you just go back to starting the next day. So, I didn’t want to end without throwing that in.

Nitish Upadhyaya: I think, it’s culturally, for me, really interesting. I’m Indian by background, and so, I grew up with conversations around meditation—and concentration meditation, in particular. It’s one way of keeping kids in place. It’s prompted some interesting thoughts. Before we leave our listeners to their days, and their ponderings and curiosities, what do you have for them as a final thought or idea?

Michael Miller: I’m just so impressed by the conversations that you have, and this idea that there is value in exploring ways to take care of ourselves, and function better. I know that the podcast addresses some really specific, almost technical, issues in your world, and at the same time, balances that out with things that are self-improving that then feed back, and this is really what we’re about. Meditation is foundational, in that you can build on top of it. A house without foundation? Not stable. A foundation with no house? A little pointless. And we build the foundation of meditation, and then, you add on top of it all the other work that you talk about and that you do. And so, I say thank you to the three of you for communicating this in a way that’s so important.

[40:59] Getting in Touch with Michael

If people want to explore a little bit more, I have a podcast called Speaking of Meditation. It’s really interesting conversations with super fascinating people, who are out there and meditating, how it is that they fit it into their life, what they noticed in the early days, how it’s impacting them as they go forward, and from really different backgrounds. I think people would enjoy that. Also, my partner, Jillian Lavender, has written a couple of books. One is called, Why Meditate? Because It Works, and that really does address the myths around meditation, and the benefits, and goes quite deeply into the science. And then, another book called Do Reset, which is about meditation as the ultimate reset, coming back to center, and moving out from there in your state of consciousness, in an ability to be, not just do. So, if you go to londonmeditationcentre.com (and that’s the English “re,” “centre”) or to newyorkmeditationcenter.com (“er,” the American), you can find our books. And come along—we do a one-hour talk on Zoom where we go into this in much more detail. And somebody who’s genuinely interested, we have to find ourselves in a room together at some point, because learning to meditate in-person, it is a simple process, it’s delicate, and it requires that molecule-to-molecule interaction. Then, in four days, you know what you’re doing. Do something that is good for you. If it’s not this, find something. We live in fortunate times. There’s a lot of stuff out there. Do something to come back to yourself, because the world needs you as your best self.

Nitish Upadhyaya: Thank you all for tuning in to the latest episode in our Culture & Compliance Chronicles series. For more information about our series and any of the ideas discussed today, take a look at the links in our show notes. You can also subscribe to the series wherever you regularly listen to podcasts, including on Apple and Spotify. Amanda, Richard, and I will be back very soon for our next chapter. If you have topics you’d like us to cover or novel perspectives you want everyone else to hear about, get in touch. Thanks again for listening. Have a wonderful day and stay curious.

 

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Show Notes:

• London Meditation Centre
• New York Meditation Center
• Speaking of Meditation Podcast
• Why Meditate? Because It Works (Lavender)
• Do Reset: Meditate. Move Beyond Thinking. Find Clarity. (Lavender)
• Michael Miller, LinkedIn